Program Overview with Faculty and Graduate


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[Annie]: Hello everyone. So thank you again for joining today’s Kent State University Master of Music in Music Education webinar. So as speakers for day, we have Dr Christopher Venesile who’s the program coordinator of the program and also Travis Gratteau-Zinnel who is a 2015 graduate from the program. And we also have Michelle Rodriguez your dedicated enrollment advisor on the line. And I’m your moderator Annie. So for today from an agenda perspective Chris will go over the program curriculum while Travis will share his side of perspective and also get into his Capstone Project which is a program design project related to standards-based grading in the secondary music classroom. And Michelle will also be here to go over admission requirements. And before we get started I welcome Chris and Travis and just to kick off the webinar Chris perhaps you can introduce yourself first and next will be Travis, you can also introduce yourself.

Chris: Okay, hi everybody. Yes, my name is Dr Chris Venesile. I spent a career in the classroom in both middle school and high school, choral music education in three school districts in the state of Ohio … In North-eastern Ohio and about the second half of my teaching career I began to get more interested in getting more in-depth into how we do what we do. And a little bit of the philosophy behind … The practice behind policy and just about teacher education. So when I retired, I had earned my PhD some years before, I was hoping to compete for a job in higher education where I could put not only my education, but also my years of service and experience to the job. And fortunately I arrived on campus at Kent State in 2012 and in addition to coordinating this program I also teach undergraduate and graduate courses in music education and focused in choral music education.

My niche area as a music educator is vocal jazz, my dissertation was on the skills and characteristics necessary for success in teaching vocal jazz at the secondary level. And yeah that kind of brings us to where we are today. I could never have dreamed 25 years ago that I would be coordinating a fully online master’s in music education. When I got my master’s in music education, you know it was during the hair band era of the middle 1980′s, so at that time everything … Registration was by hand, all courses were on ground. And if you were going to participate in some type of graduate experience, you had to be in a brick and mortar situation … There was no such thing as you know virtual learning. So I often tell undergrads and even some of our grad students who are young teachers you never know what’s going to happen down the road in a decade, two decades or even three decades down the road. So I congratulate all of you for thinking about your future, taking your future into your hands by considering graduate music education because you’ll be doing something a couple of decades down the road that you had no idea that you’d be doing. And I guess I’m a good example of that.

Annie: Thank you. Thank you Chris and welcome … Travis.

Travis: Hi everyone, I’m Travis [unintelligible 00:04:45] and I’m a recent graduate from the Kent State Online Master’s in Music and Music Education Program. I am a relatively young teacher, I’m going into my fifth year of teaching and I will be at a middle school teaching 6th grade vocal music in Waterloo, Iowa. My first experience I started with teaching pre-K-12 vocal music at a small school in Southeast Iowa. And the main reason why I was looking at this program was because I knew I wanted my master’s, but I wasn’t willing to give up classroom time to go get one. And sometimes you’re just in the middle of nowhere and you need to use your resources and my resource is actually another friend who was working at the program and she sent me the information and I called and applied, was accepted and it’s been a great decision ever since. I spend a lot of my time working with middle schoolers, I used to not like them, but now I’ve realized that they are like the [unintelligible 00:06:05] awkward, wonderful creatures that will be there along the way. And you know you get to do some real solid teaching for the vocal technique and whatnot, just going through the voice change. Recently in my job before this fall was 5th and 6th grade band and 7th and 8th grade choir. So I’m one of those individuals that does both band and vocal. So this program can help you do both of those by choosing and emphasis which we will get into later.

Annie: Thank you. And then so Chris I will pass the presentation over to you and then you can perhaps go over the curriculum and then also I think Travis can share his experience.

Chris: Great. Well I think one of the unique features about the Kent State degree program is that we allow the students to focus in on two of the three areas – instrumental, choral and general. Today there is I think the job market is such that we have many, many graduates at Kent State that are telling us that even though they were prepared as an instrumental music education major that they have been assigned both choral and general courses. And you know the job of higher education is to stay ahead of the curve and help prepare future graduates for the marketplace. And it was a … I think it was set up about … I’m going to say about eight/nine years ago two of our music education faculty who designed the program had an eye looking forward and so they took the advanced methods courses in instrumental, choral and general and said how about if we allow our candidates to choose and focus on two of the three.

And not just two of the three, but that students would also have the option if they wanted to to take all three methods courses. I just recently redesigned the choral course, the instrumental music education course has been redesigned within the last couple of years and the general music course has also been redesigned. We try to redesign these courses you know maybe after every three or four iterations, because as we know technology is constantly turning over and materials need to be updated. So whenever there’s a new edition of a textbook, we make sure that we incorporate all those changes into the design. And you know I think the one thing that I tell candidates is that this program is designed and every course is designed to reflect off the content … To reflect the content off the students’ practice in the classroom. So in each and every course, they can implement many of the things that they’re doing in the course into their classroom almost immediately. Maybe this is a good time for Travis … Do you have maybe and anecdote where that actually happened during your program?

Travis: Sure. I did the choral and general method courses, [at that time the focus] was to choose two and I found in the choral method one watching videos of [unintelligible 00:10:19] warm-ups helped when I was teaching high school so that I could better [unintelligible 00:10:25] and I could then apply those practices and see what works in my classroom, what doesn’t, how can I use research based practices and skills taken from others to apply it to my classroom. And that was small town Southern Iowa where you know I [unintelligible 00:10:48] 35/40 kids up for choir.

Chris: Right well and this is … Were you originally trained as an instrumental music education major?

Travis: Actually my undergrad was in both, because in Iowa you are licensed to do K12 vocal instrumental.

Chris: As you are [unintelligible 00:11:17].

Travis: Okay, so the focus was we had to take all the method classes for instrumental methods and then we had to take voice pad performer recital on a major instrument, but then everything else was just to prepare you to do whatever your job was going to expect you to do … Since as you said earlier, most job markets now are combining vocal and instrumental or general jobs.

Chris: Right. So in Travis’ case he was already you know fairly well prepared because of the way Iowa views certification. There are some states where you know you can be an instrumental music-ed major and basically most of your courses are in that area. Well when you go into the profession, if you encounter general music or choral music, it could be quite a culture shock. And so for this program, I think many of the comments that I see and hear about from graduates is boy thank goodness I chose to take general music along with choral music, because I had no orientation in either of those areas. And as luck would have it, changes happen in school systems and I was assigned you know both general and choral music and I was prepared due to the methods courses in the program. So these are really, really good ways of getting comprehensive training in a different area. Certainly if a student has a desire to brush up on some of the latest research, a lot of the best practices in their specialty area, taking all three you know sometimes will just add a semester or half a semester since our courses are only seven weeks … Only add you know another seven weeks half semester onto their program. Okay, should we go ahead Annie?

Annie: Yes, all yours.

Chris: Okay, alright. Foundations of music education, it’s the first course that everyone takes. For me it was my favorite course, because it was a little bit of every course that you’ll take, it has a little bit of a look into how we use quantitative and qualitative research to inform the profession. It’s the kind of stuff that as young teachers we tend to ignore, because we think oh that very esoteric research stuff that comes out of the ivory tower is not going to help me in my little classroom here in Waterloo, Iowa. But once you get into the course you realize that it’s all about good teaching, it’s about making observations, it’s about having some hypothesis about something that might work and a way to measure it. And because most of the country is involved in much more sophisticated assessment techniques today, things like inquiry and research in music education are very important. The philosophy of music education, some students again think that’s you know more or less about history, I want to concentrate on what’s going on now, well what do we know about history. Well we know that history teaches us about cycles and that if we don’t pay attention to history, we can fall into having history repeat itself.

But philosophy is also I think asking deeper questions within ourselves about what does this mean … Now that we’re finding more and more about brain science, what are the implications of brain science. The great philosophers had something to add each in their own times going back to ancient Greece, all the way through the 20th century. Well much like that we’ve had different thoughts and different ways of thinking about music education, not just here in the United States, but around the world. And by investigating those things, we’ve come to some conclusions and we also reflect these after the questions that we’ve had ourselves, not just about American music education, but about our situations, our own region, our own locale and indeed our own school. So foundations is just kind a little bit of everything and a great introduction into the program. It also helps the student to be able to learn how to read, research writing, it helps prepare a student for graduate writing, we use the APA formatting, we have a lot of help for students that are just learning how to write in this type of a narrative style. And we have some very experienced instructors that focus just on foundations and help our students not just with their comprehension and reading, but also with their writing. Inquiry in music teaching and learning, these are two seven courses.

Again it’s not hard research where you’re getting into very difficult statistics and so on and so forth, but really with practical knowledge and skills. Research that teachers can do in the classroom, we call that action research, it starts with a question, right … Will my 7th grade clarinet players benefit from this method versus this method. And there are ways that we can do that kind of research in the class and we can do it, which will have a very robust and rigorous testing that will give us the answers that we want. There are some techniques and our inquiry course has an excellent textbook that doesn’t just help during the course, but also beyond and I know that you know since I’ve had books from my graduate courses both in my master’s and PhD, I’m reaching for those books all the time and having gone through those courses and having all of those projects and having all of those papers and having that textbook, it’s always an invaluable resource in the classroom.

The Capstone Project in our course is I think probably the jewel in the program’s crown. The Capstone Project is one of a number of different projects that is the culminating piece in the program. It’s an opportunity for a student who knows in the very beginning of the program that they’re going to have this course, be thinking about a project that you would design yourself for your own situation in your area of interest. You have a program advisor, that program advisor is with you from the very beginning, the advisors are made up of our faculty who not only teach courses, not only do they teach in the program, but they also teach on ground courses, very, very experienced advisors that help students with their product. And the different types of projects include a literature review … A literature review is you know doing research on what other scholars have said on a chosen topic and being able to kind of compare and contrast and funnel from a very general nature down to a specific focus. But a literature review isn’t just a book report … At the end of the literature review, now that the student is an expert on the topic, they are also charged with the responsibility of coming up with some conclusions based on their investigation – where are the gaps in the research, you know who are saying the same things, are there controversies you know within this topic.

So a literature review is a great way to center in on a topic, find out what others have said and come to some conclusions about maybe what future research should take a look at. And in so doing the student becomes a mini expert on that topic in their area of interest. Our most popular project is called a curriculum project … It’s designed to be implemented into specific classes that our students are teaching. I’m going to give Travis a minute just to talk about his experience, you know maybe from the very first day that you thought of a potential project until the finished product. So go ahead Travis.

Travis: Okay, so I had struggled with actually finding what I wanted my project to be, because I was thinking too broadly and I was finishing up the first year in a new school. I went to my principal though and we had been talking about you know the move to standards-based assessment and grading and how it could benefit the [unintelligible 00:22:25] so to speak. And in doing that I realized that … [There we go … Sorry I realized I'm not on the right slide]. Anyway, I realized that I wanted to go forward with doing standards-based assessment in my classroom and so I [unintelligible 00:22:55] Dr Grutzmacher and she paired me with Dr [unintelligible 00:22:58] and from the get go I took the research course which is an option [unintelligible 00:23:06]. The Capstone Project and it’s kind of the [primer] for Capstone work, but you will be having an on campus experience by being off campus and by saying that I mean you will be able to talk to your advisor once a week on the phone I would talk to Dr [Koontz] for a good hour/an hour and a half and she would challenge my thinking and I would challenge her and then would be available to chat with a number of avenues, you know email, blackboard [unintelligible 00:23:50] which you will be assigned. And I’m just going to go into kind of the process that I went through and where I’m actually at. Most schools I think are still probably on a 100 points base system – 4.0 being your A’s and 3.0, so on and so on.

And I just saw a need for a change and I think I saw that need for the change because I was that choir band director that was like I’m going to use a grade to punish a kid. And I know that sounds worse than what I mean, but if a kid didn’t show up for a lesson, they got a zero. If a kid didn’t have their horn for band, they lost five points. But then I started to see that sometimes it’s not their fault, you know if they’re missing a lesson or if they’re not bringing their instrument to school, maybe that’s a home situation, like attending a concert, I would have to give a zero based on that logic for a kid that didn’t show up to a concert. Well in the … Or in the district that I used to work in, we had parents that would be working [that third shift] that would be sleeping and the last they wanted to do was take their kid to an event. It’s sad to say, but we got to think about who’s really being affected, it’s our students. And so I changed mindset and I started thinking how about a standards-based grading system where I could look at content, goals. And so many of you may have to put [I can] statements up on the board or some of you may assess on that kind of a manner – I can sing on pitch.

And then I developed a scale that would be four points – great, you got it … Three, you’re almost there … Two you need some help with the teacher or one you haven’t really attempted and you’re not trying. That allowed me to communicate not only behavior, but also content [unintelligible 00:26:11]. I found it was easier for the instrumental side of things and I just say that because it’s more [unintelligible 00:26:22] simple I think sometimes … Just as a clarinet player I can play a specific note just by putting fingers down, versus having to change my physiology to make a pitch happen in my voice. So I went through lesson books and I just created learning targets based off of key concepts and started using those to identify what needs to be done. And then to compensate for the behavior, I would communicate with parents and I would hold kids in for recess to make up time and then they had the option, I give them these are the learning targets we need to meet this quarter. And I saw kids then coming in intrinsically to be like this is what I need to do and this is how I need to do it. So that was a really powerful part. And then sources that I continued to reach out with – [Thomas Guskey] is a great author out there in standards-based grading. I found one of … One of the courses that you will take in the program is technology in music or something on technology in the music classroom, something along those lines and that class is so beneficial, because it helped me realize that Twitter and Blogger and WordPress are forms of communicating with other individuals who wants to be scholarly, but also being scholarly in a practitioner role, which I think is very important as a music educator or as an educator.

And so I [unintelligible 00:28:19] on Twitter and I will shoot out a question and I’ll use a hashstag to put up … If I’m talking about standards-based grading or if I’m talking about music education and people will get back to me and they will give me resources galore. So feel free to use those and to you know really know what’s coming up. The next [unintelligible 00:28:48] that I have is … Okay. Sorry I’m still learning technology for those listening. Okay, so other resources that I found were as Chris said books that I used throughout the program to help tailor the curriculum to the assessment to the program design … Different journal articles, conferences on standards-based grading, your national … Or your state wide music organizations can help – [NAfME] … For us in Iowa we have Iowa Bandmasters Association. And then Iowa Choral Directors or [ICDA] too for the American National Conference. And I will share that I did have a struggle NAfME recently came out with new National Music Standards on the … It’s basically a play on the core or the common core.
Now I know many of us groan when we hear common core, because you think standardized testing and all this other stuff. But I’m going at it from an optimist point of view thinking that we’re doing what’s best for kids and as someone who teaches middle school, I know that I need a strong foundation, but I also need a good middle to get a good end. So the National Music Standards now has different levels for [your ensembles] like novice, advanced, intermediate, stuff like that and those are geared to be tailored towards your own [ensembles] and your situation. If you’re teaching [unintelligible 00:30:42] band and choir, your life may be differently … Or it might be different than what I’m experiencing at just a middle school choral level. The struggle came with the National Music Standards, because it seems that they lack on the [ensemble strand foundational skill set]. And the focus is creating responding and a bunch of other things that they’ve basically taken the original nine and condensed them into broader topics [unintelligible 00:31:16] to read like the common core. If you have questions about that, I know that I’m not the most eloquent to [unintelligible 00:31:24] just feel free to reach out.

So as I said put this into place and the cool thing and as Chris pointed out, you get to have practical application with all the work that you do throughout the program. So once I started researching, I realized as I said I don’t worry about lesson attendance … Sorry you missed it, let’s make that up, because how I view that is you didn’t get time with me, so I didn’t get time to teach. And the focus is the content and the rehearsal and the making music together. My goal then came to communication, I had to communicate effectively through you know emails, home letters, explaining the points-based system, because I had to adhere to that, but not every kid in a choral setting is going to match pitch my middle school [boys] the voice change is [unintelligible 00:32:34] and so not everyone is getting through that. So I’d had to score them at a two or I’d have to adjust my numbers or not give a score, but communicate with parents and administrators. I send home learning targets with every kid or every student, so that they could see what was to come and what they would be assessed on. And students are coming more prepared and it really grew my program. And I’m going to turn it over to Chris to talk about APA style writing and tools.

Chris: Okay, great. Well APA is basically the standard format for academic writing at Kent State University and for many academic institutions. It’s probably the most prevalent in music education programs throughout the country, so that when authors submit documents for publication it’s something that’s a standardized format. And if you’re not familiar with APA style, the American Psychological Association style, you know think of it as going and learning the Macintosh platform. If you’re familiar with the Microsoft PC platform and then you move to an Apple product, it’s just like learning a new format. The content and the things that you do are the same, it’s just the design of it is just a bit different. Luckily at Kent State in our program, we have some excellent tools to help our students not just accommodate the APA style, but also improve the quality of their writing.

So in our program already we have lots of tutorials to help a student establish really good habits and an understanding of how this style can help their writing. We have a product that we are piloting currently in our foundations courses called [Pearson Writer]. It’ a product that is an online base product, where a student can submit part of their work and the program will scour it and identify weaknesses and to be able to give them different options for editing, it checks the grammar and makes suggestions. It’s a wonderful product, I wish I had it, I wish every graduate student had it, unless someone also has an English minor or an English major in their undergrad, I find that almost every student in our program can benefit from some tutorials. The Kent State University website has the Kent Writing Center and it’s an additional resource to help with writing and the APA style. The APA style has a manual that is required for the course and it’s good to have for every single course, because all the courses in our program, all ten courses in the Capstone, they all utilize the APA style.

So no matter what course you’re in, no matter what instructor that you have, everybody is writing in the same style. Okay, online learning and time management. Wow, well it’s probably a lot like being a teacher and being a husband or a wife or a parent or being a book club member and also you know playing in some extracurricular exercise or athletic activity. You’re doing multiple things, you’re wearing multiple hats as a music educator, when you become a student, you are just adding another thing to your plate. It certainly is not likely considered and we hope that every student realizes that there has to be an adjustment made to be successful. Having been a public school educator for 30 years, I can say with certainty that just in my job I had to learn time management to be able to be effective away from my job. And as I think back what I wouldn’t have done for a fully automated program. Yes, there were some things that as a choral conducting graduate student that I absolutely would have missed had it been fully online, our graduate conductors need podium time and they need to interact with an ensemble.

Well just like that in a music education degree you also need time to be able to focus on your studies, you need to be able to focus on your reading, you need to be able to focus on your writing and also the various projects that involve [unintelligible 00:39:12] things in your own teaching situation. So what we hope is that these are students that have bachelor’s degrees in music education, they’re already extremely familiar with their content area, simply it goes into much deeper detail into music history, into theoretical practices of music and analysis, teaching practice and also the teaching pedagogy outlining the steps toward effective learning. All of our courses except for the Capstone are seven weeks long. They are 16 week courses, but they’re condensed into seven week modules. And it’s delivered in such a way that even a busy teaching professional has opportunities during the week to complete the coursework. However, and I say it’s a big however, our students and candidates need to know that when they’re coming in that real life happens and there are some particular things that happen in our lives that we should carefully consider if we are going to be scheduling a course.

So we have had students that have revealed after they’ve been accepted that oh I’m going to be getting married and going on a honeymoon during such and such a course. Well unfortunately because of the way that the schedule is constructed, it’s very condensed. So if somebody’s going to be getting married or somebody’s going to be giving birth during a particular session, then you know it may be a consideration to maybe take that particular session off. We would like to think that our students would take a look at the 20 to 30-month time period and be able to long-term plan. That said we have had people that have done it and they’ve been able to handle it, but we also know that students … Family members [needs] happens. Sometimes we have students that are taking care of parents, elderly relatives, children that have special circumstances, you know these things happen. So we at least want to mention that because of the rigorous nature of these seven week courses, that real life changing kinds of things need to be considered before participating in the sessions. I have learned over time that in the beginning when I was hired to just teach a couple of courses in this program that my assumptions were misguided. Online learning isn’t better, it isn’t worse, it’s just different.

There are opportunities to get to know your instructors, there are opportunities to get to know your fellow classmates I think that are better than going to a particular class. Sometimes what we lose in being able to be in that space where we’ll be able to pick up body language and facial gestures, we are able to make up in being able to respond to classmates’ posts during discussion posts. We have found that there have been some very, very established relationships made by our students and they say they got to know each other better through the online environment than they would have had they gone to a brick and mortar building with their classmates. But that said, establishing times where that are set aside for reading, for writing, for preparing documents, for being able to participate with other classmates in projects, obviously there needs to be some time. I guess another anecdote that I think of is the fall semester and the very, very busy time for marching band directors.

I’m not going to lie, it’s a challenge and sometimes I wonder how they do it and most do it very, very well, but I think that just outlines being prepared, being able to organize and to be able to prepare for a week where you have a little bit of wiggle room in case you weren’t able to get your study time on one day, you can pick it up on another. You can take a look at this slide and see that we have … If you have access to the Kent State campus that there’s lots of great stuff happening, even if you’re not on campus, you could participate in the writing center which I mentioned earlier. Everyone will have access to the Kent State research databases and would even be able to acquire materials through the materials through the Interlibrary Loan.

Annie: Travis did you want to say anything about you know your online experience just coming from you know while you were working fulltime, because I know a lot of teachers … Like the reason why they would want to get an online program as well is because so they don’t have to sacrifice fulltime commitment, right … So then how did you balance your time … If you have any tips of our people.

Travis: Well I guess it’s going back to when I first applied to the program I was teaching pre-K-12 which meant that I had you know two sections of every elementary grade and then you know a middle school … Two middle school choir, one high school choir, directing a musical, having [unintelligible 00:45:47], you know everything. And so I think a big part of it as Chris said was time management, knowing that your first discussion post is going to be due on Friday or your assignment is due on Friday, your discussion post is due Saturday and your songs is due Sunday. And know that you need to have the content learned or started well into the start of the week, because then you get that time to actually grow with the other professionals in your program. I would also say being from Iowa I am ten hours away from Kent and I made the trek over for a convention and that is where I got to meet face to face several of the Kent State students that I went through the program with and we have become teaching resources through social media and whatnot.

So I think that’s an important part of online learning, it’s realizing that regardless of the face to face connection, while that is special, you’re still making solid connections to help grow the profession and grow your own practice. Other things I would think of as Chris pointed out earlier I got married and had a surgery during one of my courses, but I was like I know that these things [are happening], I’m going to plan ahead, I communicate effectively with the instructor to see if I could get content ahead of time and you just need to just plan accordingly. Sometimes yes life happens, you get sick, you just do what you can with what you got on a schedule and prepare earlier in advance … I think those were key things to think about. And to those as part of this webinar, you’re working with a class [act] of faculty members, adjunct and on campus, I have never been pushed so hard to be a scholar and a practitioner until I started this program and upon completion I am picking up journal articles, I am [unintelligible 00:48:19] journal articles, I am using my project to get data for my administrators so they’re like oh music people do have data. And so this is a practical program where you get to lead your learning along the way.

Chris: That’s fabulous, I had to interject there. That is fabulous and we love seeing that and we see it regularly and I should also say that we also encourage our students with their Capstones as well as various courses. Submit a journal article, submit a proposal for a session at your State Teacher Education Conference, that’s what these are for … To find some answers and to be able to share your results with other professionals, that’s what this profession is about.

Travis: And to piggyback on that, I have been done with the program for almost a year and I’m still working on my project to prepare for publication and my advisor has still been in contact with me, which is a really cool part. I think that that is when your online program truly becomes invested in you as a professional.

Annie: Thank you … No that’s really awesome Travis. And that leads me to also speaking to other graduates who has come [unintelligible 00:49:57] that we’ve recently done a survey with. And you can see it on the slide, just took snapshot of some of the [unintelligible 00:50:05]. And you can get full access to the summary of what the graduates have kind of [unintelligible 00:50:15] after the program or during the program, again the left side of your slides there and just to really see what their motivations was pursuing this degree and then what they thought about it and will they benefit from that as well. So I encourage you to take a look at that at your leisure. So okay so I’m just going to ask a couple of questions Chris, because we do have a couple of questions that are really common amongst applicants. One is you know is this … Like since this program is online, like does the degree say online and is there any difference between like on campus, right … [Indicating that]?

Chris: No, I mean the degree is the same as any other graduate degree. And this program is accredited by the National Association of Schools of Music and we have students from every state in the union as well as American students that are teaching abroad. So this program’s accreditation is impeccable and the degree is as valid and useful as any other program. Some people prefer online advance study particularly in master’s study, there are also fully online PhD’s. I think it’s just the preference of the student. And we know that a fully online program offers greater flexibility for the student. Sometimes we have students that live in a very rural area somewhere in the country, where they just don’t have access to a campus. That said we also have folks that have access to a number of places, but because of their particular circumstances as a parent, you know in addition to other responsibilities that they have, it’s just more convenient. But the outcome of the degree and the weight of that degree is the same as any other program.

Annie: Thank you. I know we’re already past the hour mark and I know there were a couple of questions. One was about coming onto campus, I’ll expand that question a little bit where is there a requirement at all to come on campus?

Chris: No, there is no … Yeah there is no course requirement … None of our courses require a student to come to campus. Students may come to campus, in fact we love to invite all of our students and alumni to attend our Ohio Music Education State Professional Conference every year. It’s usually held in either the last week in January or first week in February in either Cleveland, Columbus or Cincinnati and frequently we have students that will journey to that conference where we can meet them and they can attend sessions. Ohio is the third largest state conference in the nation … In NAfME. So it’s a great place for us to see them, but as far as course requirements, there is no course requirement. The only other time that I can think of is Travis shared the fact that he came the ten hours to campus to graduate and walk and I think that … I would highly encourage anybody who can do it to come and participate [unintelligible 00:54:12] it’s a very, very memorable experience.

Annie: Thank you. And then just so then I don’t keep everyone for this evening, if there’s any more questions, our contacts are on the screen there … Definitely we welcome any questions and we’ll try to get back to you as soon as possible and otherwise you can feel free to book an appointment with us or with Michelle [unintelligible 00:54:38] so that we can go over the details and just kind of talk through the program [unintelligible 00:54:43] and everything like that. So we really thank you Travis and Chris for being here today and taking the time out of your schedule, I know it’s really busy right now to kind of speak with everyone and really get again two different perspectives – faculty and then graduate perspective for the program. So thank you again.

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