A New Way of Thinking About Curriculum: 3S Pedagogy


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Annie: Okay, well hello and welcome everyone. Thank you for joining today’s Webinar on A New Way of Thinking About Curriculum from Kent State University. My name is Annie and I’m your host for today. We have with us Kristin Cohen-Mishlan and also Beatrice Olesko, who will be presenting to us today.

Now, before we begin, allow me to go through the Webinar platform. In front of you, you should see the slides as we move through the Webinar and then to the right of this there’s a chat box that you can you can submit questions or any audio issues directly to me, throughout this presentation. Now, if you don’t see this chat box, [all 00:00:38] you can do is, on the top right corner of your screen there should be a chat icon or, like, a bubble, click on that and then the chat box will open. So, if you guys want to try typing into this chat box to me, feel free to.

So, and then for some housekeeping items, some of you might have already called in, as well as being online. Now, for those of you on the call, I ask that you keep your phones on mute until the Q and A portions of the presentation, just to maintain audio quality. And we will address the questions throughout the presentation and as mentioned, you can definitely type your questions into the chat box at any time and I will collect all those questions and bring that, bring them up during the Q and A periods. And also for playback purposes recording is happening as we speak. This Webinar recording will be available and provided through our [unintelligible 00:01:32] advisor Michelle.

Okay. The agenda is pretty straightforward, as you can see, we’ll get right into the presentation, right after I introduce the speakers. So thank you again everyone for taking the time to join today’s Webinar. I would now like to welcome Kristin, who is actually a graduate from the online Master of Music in Music Education Program and now a Doctoral student. And also welcoming Beatrice, who is also a graduate from the program and now a graduate assistant for the program. They have both been recently presenting at the Ohio Music Educator Association in the Professional Development Conference. And I really want to thank everyone, the both of you for taking the time to prepare this presentation for us and in speaking with us today. Now Kristin and Beatrice I’m going to pass it over to you two. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself before we begin?

Kristin: Okay.

Kristin: Yeah. Hi, my name is Kristin Cohen-Mishlan and I was a band director for eight years in Southern Ohio and I’m currently a second doctoral student at Kent State University like Annie said and I just wanted to reiterate, that I completed the Master of Music in Music Education Online Program from Kent State. While I was teaching full time and it was such a great experience that I, and I enjoyed the course work so much that I decided to apply for a higher education.

Beatrice: Hello everyone, I’m Beatrice Olesko and like Kristin, I am also a second year doctoral student here at Kent State and before beginning my doctorate here, I taught elementary music for seven years at a [world 00:03:20] district in Ohio. In the first year I was [unintelligible 00:03:23] my doctoral education. I was still teaching and then took a sabbatical to come and work as a graduate assistant and like Kristin, I am a graduate of the Online MMME program. So, we’re really glad that you are here to join us tonight.

Kristin: And tonight we’re going to talk about our journey of understanding in a class that we took with Dr. James Henderson here on campus at Kent State and he taught the class titled, “Fundamentals of Curriculum”. And the text, which Beatrice is going to talk to you about, is about, “Reconceptualising Curriculum Development”. And in this class, it wasn’t like some other class, that in the College of Education, that you might remember from your undergraduate days. Where it didn’t really fit with what you were teaching and what or what you were learning in the school of music.

And it was, kind of, like fitting a square peg into a round hole and there wasn’t really any – we were struggling to make connections between education and music and Dr. Henderson really opened our world up into the College of Education and by promoting his [parery 00:04:33] and journey of understanding. He, in his syllabus really didn’t have any objectives for what we were going to learn. He didn’t feel that it was his place or his purpose to tell us what we were going to learn or take away from the classroom. And it was much a self-guided experience and you took away from the class what you put in and what you wanted to get out of it.

Beatrice: And because of that, we were able to make all kinds of applications from this concept that is typically thought of in general education to music education and so we’re very excited to share how those things apply with you today.

So, the text that we used in this class “Reconceptualising Curriculum Development” was a unique book, because Dr. Henderson did not write this book all by himself or with one or two of his colleagues in the College of Education or other PHD’s in Education from across the country. It was a collaborative effort with other colleagues, from many other disciplines and walks of life, for instance, a few of his doctoral students contributed to the text book, practicing teachers, who were not enrolled in the doctoral program, contributed to the text book. And so, it was really, a meeting of many different levels and kinds of minds that came together to talk about this new way of thinking of curriculum development. And here, as you can see, on the left side of the slide, the book advances in new conceptions and practice of curriculum development that is inspired by a powerful, [categogical 00:06:20], artistry.

Dr. Henderson really thought of, thinks I should say, of teaching as an art. And we know, as music teachers, that our teaching is just as much of a performance art as is our musicianship. We are working on performing and, not just transmitting knowledge to our students, but really connecting with them in a way that makes sense. And so, people who are in education now, many of them don’t see themselves as these bureaucratic functionaries, as Dr. Henderson likes to say, or just cogs in the wheel of this systematic instruction that we’re all being, kind of, handed down from, you know, from governments and administrators and things like that. They see themselves as a lead professional with important visionary progressive responsibilities and we’re going to talk about it means to be a lead professional with you today.

So, while we do that, we’re going to discuss this teacher lead approach to developing curriculums. The approach that Dr. Henderson advocates for is not one that’s given by an administrators or State Legislatures or Governors, it’s one that’s inspired by and powered teachers. And so, that’s this idea of lead learning that we’re going to get into today and deliberative conversation or you’re working with your colleagues to decide what’s working and what’s not in your classroom. And really.

Kristin: So, that’s the most of what we’re going to talk today is, 3S Pedagogy and how to reconceptualise curriculum, so that we foster three-s understanding in our students. The three S’s, we are going to talk are subjects understanding, social understanding and self-understanding and we’ll talk about what each of those means in a minute. But when we foster this three-s understanding in our students, we can promote democratic holistic education in our classrooms and that’s the goal that we’re going for this evening is to share with you how you might do that in a way that makes sense for your teaching situation.

And you’re probably listening and thinking, I’m already doing do much as a teacher and how can you expect me to do even more in the classroom and, you know, we don’t want you to feel that this is some other fancy fad in education that we’re trying to incorporate. This is just a small vision of what we can do to make sure that we’re teaching our students holistically and providing them with an education that’s going to last into the future and for years and years and garner a lifelong -

Beatrice: Appreciation.

Kristin: – appreciation of music. So, don’t feel like you’re trying a fit a square peg into a round hole and that this another fad in education and we’re just asking that you think of small steps in how you can change and adapt your current instruction to stretch and meet the needs of the students.

Beatrice: So when, Kristin and I have presented this information before in front of a live audience that was in person, we had asked our participant to participate in some conversations, that don’t really lend themselves to this, kind of, platform. For instance, we have asked people to think about how curriculum works in their schools and the role that they have in curriculum development. And so, we’d like to ask you to think about that from wherever you are, right now. Think about what function you have in how curriculum is developed in your school. Do you have a voice in that or not? And does curriculum come from the teachers or is it handed down from administrators or state governments or perhaps its district wide or regional counties. We’ve heard from very many different situations from other teachers and so while we’re talking to you about curriculum. I want you to think about what your current role is, if you even have one and how you might be able to adapt it to fit into this new paradigm of lead learning.

We’d like to ask you to imagine teachers actually studying their own practice for the purpose of developing the knowledge that propels them forward. Here, this quote really speaks to the essence of what lead learning is, “Teachers working together to develop curriculums, to figure out what makes sense for their students”, not just to figure out, okay we need to check off these boxes and make sure we’ve covered these standards, but to work together, congenially, to figure out what would work. This represents a break from the standardised management paradigm that we’re all getting used. A lot of us against our will and I know we all have different situations depending on the State that we’re teaching in, but we’re all being faced with different accountability measures and students growth measures and all different, kinds of, things in our current teaching situations.

And so this is, kind of, a break from that, that allows teachers to have a sense of autonomy, like they really have a voice. And it encourages reflective inquiry, this is a great phrase, that means that you’re discussing with your colleagues about what’s working in your classroom and what’s not. And participating in deliberative conversations where you’re sharing your knowledge and experiences with others and then learning from them in turn. If you can be a lead learner and give yourself a voice in the curriculum development for your subjects or even in your school, it might give you a sense of control that empowers you as a teacher.

Kristin: And like, we were saying about deliberative conversations. It really needs to have a focus and have some, sort of, [place 00:12:36]. And this is something that we’re probably already doing, in music education and that you are probably already doing. And we’re having these conversations, but we need to think of what, sort of, outcome and goals that we want these conversations that we have with other colleagues to serve. What is the purpose of having these conversations? And it probably is to become a better teacher or to produce better instruction for your students.

And looking at this, in music education this, kind of, brings music educators in from the fringes, because sometimes we are in our own little hallway, completely isolated from the rest of the colleagues. This is, kind of, a way to have your voice heard within the school district and become a bigger part of the system and also advocates for music education. Because we want to make music for music’s sake and we want to teach our students that, not because music might make them smarter or music might make them do better in math. We want them to appreciate music because music should be appreciated. And this also is a way to be responsible and accountable in a way that makes sense. Like, OTES doesn’t really make sense as the Ohio Teaching Evaluation System and it’s, kind of, it’s like any other standardised paradigm that we are forced to measure the growth of our students.

And this kind of lead learning give us the autonomy to teach and design our lessons and requires building trust with administration, so that we can show our growth in a way that makes sense to us and to our students and to our professions.

Beatrice: So, by having these conversations with people outside our own disciplines we’re showing that music educators, hey, we have a curriculum too. We’re not just a place where students go and make music and leave and it’s fun and that’s it. Of course, it’s fun and that’s one of our goals, as music educators, is to give our students positive musical experiences, that they’ll remember, but there are real curricular objectives that we’re trying to get across. And so, by participating in curriculum conversation with colleagues outside of music, we can show that we have goals and objectives, just as much as other subjects. And when we’re doing that, we want to really be planning for this, what you see on your screen now. 3S Pedagogy, we want to teach in a way that fosters three-s understanding and as I said a little bit earlier that means, subject matter understanding, social understanding and self-understanding.

And we’re going to get into what each one of those things means and what it will look like in the music classroom throughout our talk this evening. And we want to incorporate these kinds of understandings into our classrooms so we can promote democratic, holistic education. Where we are educating the whole child, not just giving them facts or scales or rhythm patterns that they need to learn, but really talking about what music means culturally, holistically, what it means to them. We want to relate to their lives outside of school and we want to involve the students in the learning process. We want to give them an active role and a voice in what we’re teaching them in the music classroom.

Kristin: And now we’re going to look at the, how music education, how we can concrete – I’m sorry, excuse me – critic in music education, how 3S Pedagogy is not occurring and typically in music education an ensemble is very teachers [learnerd 00:16:32]. It’s a director standing on the podium over talk the students and telling them specifically this is the rhythm I want you to play. Play what’s written on the page, don’t be musical, just play what’s written on the page, these are the dynamics I want. And we’re not really allowing our student to have a voice and be, allow them to be musical and let them make sense of the music. And there’s just a lack of connection with other musical experiences. Is, are we promoting that student’s real life home music isn’t good enough for schools, because are we really teaching popular music in schools or if we are, what aspects of popular music are we really teaching. And then this is, kind of like, a cookie cutter curriculum, because we’re teaching the way that we were taught.

And if you think back to your undergraduate days and your undergraduate methods courses, you were probably taught in the great methods and ways to teach things, but are we actually using them in the classroom? And I venture to say that we’re probably teaching the same way that we were taught and once again music education is very performance driven and if we’re going to make changes in music education, we need to change the way that we teach and perhaps the goals of music education. Are we too focused on concerts and contests and assessment?

Do we have to worry about playing the concert completely 100% correct without any wrong notes? And but, are we focused too much on that and not focusing musicianship and connecting student experiences?

Beatrice: So, let’s get into these three S’s now. We’re going to start with subject matter understanding. And this is the one that’s easiest to understand, because this is the thing that we’re definitely already doing. The subject is the main focus in the classroom and it’s pretty much the music that we are teaching our students. Just like in the subject matter in science classroom, would be physics or chemistry or whichever aspect of science it would be. In an English or language arts classroom it might be grammar or specific works of literature and the subject matter in the music classroom is music that we are learning about.

Now as Kristin said, we are very performance driven subject and that’s important, performing is one of the main aspects of music and we should perform and so that is why it is such a big part of what we’re teaching, a big part of our subject matter. Because in performance we’re doing concerts and adjudicated events. We’re learning how to perform under pressure, we’re learning how to perform as an ensemble and things like that. We’re learning the physical aspects of performance. We talk about things like embouchure, rack support, are we raising our soft palate in choir. We’re learning about holding mallets correctly in the elementary music classroom, when using Orff instruments. All these physical aspects of performance are parts of the subject matter that we’re teaching in music and we’re also working on musical literacy, can we read the notes, can we read the rhythm, can we read the pitches? We’re teaching our students this new language that they need to have in order to perform in the, kinds of, ensembles in the environments that are typically offered in music education.

We also have vocabulary in our subject matter, we have this musical language that we talked about through notation, but we also have all kinds of terminology, we want our students to know, expressive musical terms. Other words that might have different meanings in music than they do in other disciplines. For example in my own classroom with young students I, with kindergartners and first graders if any of you are elementary music teachers, you know you spend a lot time on musical dichotomy, loud and quiet, long and short, things like that. One of the problems, that I’ve run into is when talking about dynamics, if you use the words load and soft. And you say, okay think of something that is soft and you’re looking for, oh a kitten, a bird, an example of a student, that could think of something like that, they start to say oh pillows, clouds and things that are soft in that way. And so, we want teach our student how to think about other words and vocabulary in musical terms.

And also sometimes we even get to the historical information, we get to talk about composers of pieces that we’re learning. Maybe what’s going on in the time period that that composer wrote the piece. And so, we’re already doing all these things in the classroom. We’re teaching the subject matter understanding, but often times, we’re stopping here and that’s all that makes up our curriculum, but as we know as musicians there is so much more to music than this. We can go beyond the subject matter.

Kristin: And move into the social realm and in our opinion the social pedagogy, can be divided into the macro and the micro and macro levels. And the micro levels are things that we probably look at music education as an advantageous aspect and something that we advocate for music education because it builds the school community. That there’s team work and social development and you know the ensemble type building activities that music brings. So, those are things that we probably. Like, subject matter, we’re already using, we’re already promoting, and we’re already doing.

But if we look at the big picture and how being historical and the cultural information applies to the larger world and how the composers can come to life and that they’re not just a date and a term and some, sort of, memorisation piece of something that they have to learn. That it’s going to be able to be a part of their worlds and relate to their outside musical experiences. Because that doesn’t just stop in music education and like Beatrice has said, she believes that we want to foster a lifelong music appreciation. Because if that’s all the time we get to promote music education and they become part of our school board or our administration someday we want to make that they’re able to connect the music in a way that’s outside of music that they teach in school.

Beatrice: Exactly. And even just become informed consumer and so as Kristin said we’re doing a lot with this micro level especially in the ensemble classroom and we use it to advocate for music. Oh music’s important, not just because it’s [unintelligible 00:23:45] great musical things but also look at this team work, look at this leadership that we’re developing in our classroom, but we’re not necessarily relating that to the big picture of what’s going on in the world. Are we looking at how the ensemble functions together, not only in our school, but how does this work in other schools? How does it work in other States or cultures or countries? And so, looking at our musical experiences and relating them to those of others, so we can really make sense of them and see where we’re fitting in.

Kristin: And this deals with looking at the self-pedagogy. And this requires relevant subject matter and instruction and meeting the student’s needs and a popular term that’s being formed in education these days, is differentiation. And this is just basically v carefully designing curriculum that meets students where they are and connects their prior knowledge and their prior experiences to their real life, so that it has something to, kind of, stick to and that, it’s another aspect of felling and emotion that they can connect to the music or connect to the curriculum. It encourages students to think about their personal views and what the subject matter means to them.

And like we said earlier, the ensemble experience is very director centred and we don’t want to give students information, like Dr. Henderson did for us and when he gave us that sense of autonomy in his, “Fundamentals of Curriculum” class. It was actually quite scary that we were in charge of our own learning and we were, kind of, nervous and thinking well what does the professor expect. Because typically, in any class that you take, you’re going to be told exactly the projects that you’ll need to complete, what you need to do to get an A in the class and that’s what, you know we were all used to. So, it was really scary for us at first to go into that type of atmosphere and we want students to be autonomous also and we want them to be engaged and have some, sort of, active role and be kind of as repository for instruction.

Beatrice: So, just to review for a minute, we’ve got our subject matter understanding, which is understanding music in its performance aspects, the terminology, the physical aspects, even some historical information. We also want to promote social understanding on the micro and macro levels and understand the role that we’re playing in our musical development through the self-understanding, what does it mean to the student particularly? How has it connected to the rest of their life? So, as Kristine said before, when they leave our classrooms, go out into the world, we can make sure we’ve taken something that they are taking something positive about music with them. And so, if we can do this in a way that makes sense for our own situation, our own students and school districts and also make it fit with our administrators expectations, we can cultivate democratic, holistic education. And it’s important to know, that we’re saying, that we can adapt this in a way that makes sense for your own particular situation.

There is no prescription for here is exactly how you can foster a 3S Pedagogy in your classroom, ta-da-da and the list and you check off these boxes and go. It’s just not how it works, you need to figure out what works best for your students in your situation, which actually is kind of a breath of air after having many people tell you exactly what you should be doing in your classroom. And so, by doing that, by having that autonomy yourself and promoting it in your student, we can have this democratic, holistic education. And we can do it by facilitating rather than directing, getting away from what Kristen described as that director centred classroom, where we tell the students exactly what we want them to do here and this is why and I’m going to make these musical decisions and you’re going to do this.

We might want to ask them questions. Why do you think the composer write this this way? Why did the composer choose these particular instruments to play here? What did the [timbre 00:28:20] have to do with the emotion that the composer is trying to evoke? We can ask our students these questions and leave them to come up with answers that make sense to them, we can ask them why do you think is a good piece to perform on the concert. What do you think our audience is going to get out this? Does it fit with the certain them that we’re working on for our concert and have that, kind of, conversation, because we need to be discussing rather than dictating. Now of course we’re music educators, we’re the expert in the room and so there are going to be times when we need to tell our students certain information, but we can also ask them what does this particular piece of music or this particular cultural aspect that we’re talking about mean to you? What do you hear in this piece of music? We always like to give our students the answers, sometimes even in advance.

A lot of times, with listening examples particularly, we’re going to say, “All right class, today we are going to listen Carnival of Animal, by Saint-Saëns and we are going to listen to the swan part and you will hear that the cello sounds like a swan and the piano sounds like the water. And then push play and our students already know what they’re listening for, but if we give them a chance what they’ve heard first then they might actually make a better personal connection to that piece of music. Does that mean we can’t share the answer that we think it is, of course not, of course we can share that information, but we can give our students the grace as well, because we want to relate to their outside musical experience. Perhaps, if we’re discussing a composer, who wrote a particular piece of music and talking about the social understanding, what was happening in the world when the composer wrote that piece of music. Why was, did world events inspire this composer to write this piece? Have you ever experienced anything like this in your life and then that composer becomes a person rather than just a fact and we might be able to relate better.

We want to know what our students are doing with music outside of school. Kristin mentioned popular music earlier, are we advocating to completely transform your curriculum, into nothing but popular music that your students are listening to? Of course not, but do we think that maybe validating some of their experiences, not because we particularly care for all that music as well, but because they are sharing and engaging in the music. But we can show them how that kind of music connects to other kinds then we can really make lifelong appreciators out of our students.

Annie:             Okay, well hello and welcome everyone. Thank you for joining today’s Webinar on A New Way of Thinking About Curriculum from Kent State University. My name is Annie and I’m your host for today. We have with us Kristin Cohen-Mishlan and also Beatrice Olesko, who will be presenting to us today.

Now, before we begin, allow me to go through the Webinar platform. In front of you, you should see the slides as we move through the Webinar and then to the right of this there’s a chat box that you can you can submit questions or any audio issues directly to me, throughout this presentation. Now, if you don’t see this chat box, [all 00:00:38] you can do is, on the top right corner of your screen there should be a chat icon or, like, a bubble, click on that and then the chat box will open. So, if you guys want to try typing into this chat box to me, feel free to.

So, and then for some housekeeping items, some of you might have already called in, as well as being online. Now, for those of you on the call, I ask that you keep your phones on mute until the Q and A portions of the presentation, just to maintain audio quality. And we will address the questions throughout the presentation and as mentioned, you can definitely type your questions into the chat box at any time and I will collect all those questions and bring that, bring them up during the Q and A periods. And also for playback purposes recording is happening as we speak. This Webinar recording will be available and provided through our [unintelligible 00:01:32] advisor Michelle.

Okay. The agenda is pretty straightforward, as you can see, we’ll get right into the presentation, right after I introduce the speakers. So thank you again everyone for taking the time to join today’s Webinar. I would now like to welcome Kristin, who is actually a graduate from the online Master of Music in Music Education Program and now a Doctoral student. And also welcoming Beatrice, who is also a graduate from the program and now a graduate assistant for the program. They have both been recently presenting at the Ohio Music Educator Association in the Professional Development Conference. And I really want to thank everyone, the both of you for taking the time to prepare this presentation for us and in speaking with us today. Now Kristin and Beatrice I’m going to pass it over to you two. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself before we begin?

Kristin:            Okay.

Kristin:            Yeah. Hi, my name is Kristin Cohen-Mishlan and I was a band director for eight years in Southern Ohio and I’m currently a second doctoral student at Kent State University like Annie said and I just wanted to reiterate, that I completed the Master of Music in Music Education Online Program from Kent State. While I was teaching full time and it was such a great experience that I, and I enjoyed the course work so much that I decided to apply for a higher education.

Beatrice:          Hello everyone, I’m Beatrice Olesko and like Kristin, I am also a second year doctoral student here at Kent State and before beginning my doctorate here, I taught elementary music for seven years at a [world 00:03:20] district in Ohio. In the first year I was [unintelligible 00:03:23] my doctoral education. I was still teaching and then took a sabbatical to come and work as a graduate assistant and like Kristin, I am a graduate of the Online MMME program. So, we’re really glad that you are here to join us tonight.

Kristin:            And tonight we’re going to talk about our journey of understanding in a class that we took with Dr. James Henderson here on campus at Kent State and he taught the class titled, “Fundamentals of Curriculum”. And the text, which Beatrice is going to talk to you about, is about, “Reconceptualising Curriculum Development”. And in this class, it wasn’t like some other class, that in the College of Education, that you might remember from your undergraduate days. Where it didn’t really fit with what you were teaching and what or what you were learning in the school of music.

And it was, kind of, like fitting a square peg into a round hole and there wasn’t really any – we were struggling to make connections between education and music and Dr. Henderson really opened our world up into the College of Education and by promoting his [parery 00:04:33] and journey of understanding. He, in his syllabus really didn’t have any objectives for what we were going to learn. He didn’t feel that it was his place or his purpose to tell us what we were going to learn or take away from the classroom. And it was much a self-guided experience and you took away from the class what you put in and what you wanted to get out of it.

Beatrice:          And because of that, we were able to make all kinds of applications from this concept that is typically thought of in general education to music education and so we’re very excited to share how those things apply with you today.

So, the text that we used in this class “Reconceptualising Curriculum Development” was a unique book, because Dr. Henderson did not write this book all by himself or with one or two of his colleagues in the College of Education or other PHD’s in Education from across the country. It was a collaborative effort with other colleagues, from many other disciplines and walks of life, for instance, a few of his doctoral students contributed to the text book, practicing teachers, who were not enrolled in the doctoral program, contributed to the text book. And so, it was really, a meeting of many different levels and kinds of minds that came together to talk about this new way of thinking of curriculum development. And here, as you can see, on the left side of the slide, the book advances in new conceptions and practice of curriculum development that is inspired by a powerful, [categogical 00:06:20], artistry.

Dr. Henderson really thought of, thinks I should say, of teaching as an art. And we know, as music teachers, that our teaching is just as much of a performance art as is our musicianship. We are working on performing and, not just transmitting knowledge to our students, but really connecting with them in a way that makes sense. And so, people who are in education now, many of them don’t see themselves as these bureaucratic functionaries, as Dr. Henderson likes to say, or just cogs in the wheel of this systematic instruction that we’re all being, kind of, handed down from, you know, from governments and administrators and things like that. They see themselves as a lead professional with important visionary progressive responsibilities and we’re going to talk about it means to be a lead professional with you today.

So, while we do that, we’re going to discuss this teacher lead approach to developing curriculums. The approach that Dr. Henderson advocates for is not one that’s given by an administrators or State Legislatures or Governors, it’s one that’s inspired by and powered teachers. And so, that’s this idea of lead learning that we’re going to get into today and deliberative conversation or you’re working with your colleagues to decide what’s working and what’s not in your classroom. And really.

Kristin:            So, that’s the most of what we’re going to talk today is, 3S Pedagogy and how to reconceptualise curriculum, so that we foster three-s understanding in our students. The three S’s, we are going to talk are subjects understanding, social understanding and self-understanding and we’ll talk about what each of those means in a minute. But when we foster this three-s understanding in our students, we can promote democratic holistic education in our classrooms and that’s the goal that we’re going for this evening is to share with you how you might do that in a way that makes sense for your teaching situation.

And you’re probably listening and thinking, I’m already doing do much as a teacher and how can you expect me to do even more in the classroom and, you know, we don’t want you to feel that this is some other fancy fad in education that we’re trying to incorporate. This is just a small vision of what we can do to make sure that we’re teaching our students holistically and providing them with an education that’s going to last into the future and for years and years and garner a lifelong -

Beatrice:          Appreciation.

Kristin:            – appreciation of music. So, don’t feel like you’re trying a fit a square peg into a round hole and that this another fad in education and we’re just asking that you think of small steps in how you can change and adapt your current instruction to stretch and meet the needs of the students.

Beatrice:          So when, Kristin and I have presented this information before in front of a live audience that was in person, we had asked our participant to participate in some conversations, that don’t really lend themselves to this, kind of, platform. For instance, we have asked people to think about how curriculum works in their schools and the role that they have in curriculum development. And so, we’d like to ask you to think about that from wherever you are, right now. Think about what function you have in how curriculum is developed in your school. Do you have a voice in that or not? And does curriculum come from the teachers or is it handed down from administrators or state governments or perhaps its district wide or regional counties. We’ve heard from very many different situations from other teachers and so while we’re talking to you about curriculum. I want you to think about what your current role is, if you even have one and how you might be able to adapt it to fit into this new paradigm of lead learning.

We’d like to ask you to imagine teachers actually studying their own practice for the purpose of developing the knowledge that propels them forward. Here, this quote really speaks to the essence of what lead learning is, “Teachers working together to develop curriculums, to figure out what makes sense for their students”, not just to figure out, okay we need to check off these boxes and make sure we’ve covered these standards, but to work together, congenially, to figure out what would work. This represents a break from the standardised management paradigm that we’re all getting used. A lot of us against our will and I know we all have different situations depending on the State that we’re teaching in, but we’re all being faced with different accountability measures and students growth measures and all different, kinds of, things in our current teaching situations.

And so this is, kind of, a break from that, that allows teachers to have a sense of autonomy, like they really have a voice. And it encourages reflective inquiry, this is a great phrase, that means that you’re discussing with your colleagues about what’s working in your classroom and what’s not. And participating in deliberative conversations where you’re sharing your knowledge and experiences with others and then learning from them in turn. If you can be a lead learner and give yourself a voice in the curriculum development for your subjects or even in your school, it might give you a sense of control that empowers you as a teacher.

Kristin:            And like, we were saying about deliberative conversations. It really needs to have a focus and have some, sort of, [place 00:12:36]. And this is something that we’re probably already doing, in music education and that you are probably already doing. And we’re having these conversations, but we need to think of what, sort of, outcome and goals that we want these conversations that we have with other colleagues to serve. What is the purpose of having these conversations? And it probably is to become a better teacher or to produce better instruction for your students.

And looking at this, in music education this, kind of, brings music educators in from the fringes, because sometimes we are in our own little hallway, completely isolated from the rest of the colleagues. This is, kind of, a way to have your voice heard within the school district and become a bigger part of the system and also advocates for music education. Because we want to make music for music’s sake and we want to teach our students that, not because music might make them smarter or music might make them do better in math. We want them to appreciate music because music should be appreciated. And this also is a way to be responsible and accountable in a way that makes sense. Like, OTES doesn’t really make sense as the Ohio Teaching Evaluation System and it’s, kind of, it’s like any other standardised paradigm that we are forced to measure the growth of our students.

And this kind of lead learning give us the autonomy to teach and design our lessons and requires building trust with administration, so that we can show our growth in a way that makes sense to us and to our students and to our professions.

Beatrice:          So, by having these conversations with people outside our own disciplines we’re showing that music educators, hey, we have a curriculum too. We’re not just a place where students go and make music and leave and it’s fun and that’s it. Of course, it’s fun and that’s one of our goals, as music educators, is to give our students positive musical experiences, that they’ll remember, but there are real curricular objectives that we’re trying to get across. And so, by participating in curriculum conversation with colleagues outside of music, we can show that we have goals and objectives, just as much as other subjects. And when we’re doing that, we want to really be planning for this, what you see on your screen now. 3S Pedagogy, we want to teach in a way that fosters three-s understanding and as I said a little bit earlier that means, subject matter understanding, social understanding and self-understanding.

And we’re going to get into what each one of those things means and what it will look like in the music classroom throughout our talk this evening. And we want to incorporate these kinds of understandings into our classrooms so we can promote democratic, holistic education. Where we are educating the whole child, not just giving them facts or scales or rhythm patterns that they need to learn, but really talking about what music means culturally, holistically, what it means to them. We want to relate to their lives outside of school and we want to involve the students in the learning process. We want to give them an active role and a voice in what we’re teaching them in the music classroom.

Kristin:            And now we’re going to look at the, how music education, how we can concrete – I’m sorry, excuse me – critic in music education, how 3S Pedagogy is not occurring and typically in music education an ensemble is very teachers [learnerd 00:16:32]. It’s a director standing on the podium over talk the students and telling them specifically this is the rhythm I want you to play. Play what’s written on the page, don’t be musical, just play what’s written on the page, these are the dynamics I want. And we’re not really allowing our student to have a voice and be, allow them to be musical and let them make sense of the music. And there’s just a lack of connection with other musical experiences. Is, are we promoting that student’s real life home music isn’t good enough for schools, because are we really teaching popular music in schools or if we are, what aspects of popular music are we really teaching. And then this is, kind of like, a cookie cutter curriculum, because we’re teaching the way that we were taught.

And if you think back to your undergraduate days and your undergraduate methods courses, you were probably taught in the great methods and ways to teach things, but are we actually using them in the classroom? And I venture to say that we’re probably teaching the same way that we were taught and once again music education is very performance driven and if we’re going to make changes in music education, we need to change the way that we teach and perhaps the goals of music education. Are we too focused on concerts and contests and assessment?

Do we have to worry about playing the concert completely 100% correct without any wrong notes? And but, are we focused too much on that and not focusing musicianship and connecting student experiences?

Beatrice:          So, let’s get into these three S’s now. We’re going to start with subject matter understanding. And this is the one that’s easiest to understand, because this is the thing that we’re definitely already doing. The subject is the main focus in the classroom and it’s pretty much the music that we are teaching our students. Just like in the subject matter in science classroom, would be physics or chemistry or whichever aspect of science it would be. In an English or language arts classroom it might be grammar or specific works of literature and the subject matter in the music classroom is music that we are learning about.

Now as Kristin said, we are very performance driven subject and that’s important, performing is one of the main aspects of music and we should perform and so that is why it is such a big part of what we’re teaching, a big part of our subject matter. Because in performance we’re doing concerts and adjudicated events. We’re learning how to perform under pressure, we’re learning how to perform as an ensemble and things like that. We’re learning the physical aspects of performance. We talk about things like embouchure, rack support, are we raising our soft palate in choir. We’re learning about holding mallets correctly in the elementary music classroom, when using Orff instruments. All these physical aspects of performance are parts of the subject matter that we’re teaching in music and we’re also working on musical literacy, can we read the notes, can we read the rhythm, can we read the pitches? We’re teaching our students this new language that they need to have in order to perform in the, kinds of, ensembles in the environments that are typically offered in music education.

We also have vocabulary in our subject matter, we have this musical language that we talked about through notation, but we also have all kinds of terminology, we want our students to know, expressive musical terms. Other words that might have different meanings in music than they do in other disciplines. For example in my own classroom with young students I, with kindergartners and first graders if any of you are elementary music teachers, you know you spend a lot time on musical dichotomy, loud and quiet, long and short, things like that. One of the problems, that I’ve run into is when talking about dynamics, if you use the words load and soft. And you say, okay think of something that is soft and you’re looking for, oh a kitten, a bird, an example of a student, that could think of something like that, they start to say oh pillows, clouds and things that are soft in that way. And so, we want teach our student how to think about other words and vocabulary in musical terms.

And also sometimes we even get to the historical information, we get to talk about composers of pieces that we’re learning. Maybe what’s going on in the time period that that composer wrote the piece. And so, we’re already doing all these things in the classroom. We’re teaching the subject matter understanding, but often times, we’re stopping here and that’s all that makes up our curriculum, but as we know as musicians there is so much more to music than this. We can go beyond the subject matter.

Kristin:            And move into the social realm and in our opinion the social pedagogy, can be divided into the macro and the micro and macro levels. And the micro levels are things that we probably look at music education as an advantageous aspect and something that we advocate for music education because it builds the school community. That there’s team work and social development and you know the ensemble type building activities that music brings. So, those are things that we probably. Like, subject matter, we’re already using, we’re already promoting, and we’re already doing.

But if we look at the big picture and how being historical and the cultural information applies to the larger world and how the composers can come to life and that they’re not just a date and a term and some, sort of, memorisation piece of something that they have to learn. That it’s going to be able to be a part of their worlds and relate to their outside musical experiences. Because that doesn’t just stop in music education and like Beatrice has said, she believes that we want to foster a lifelong music appreciation. Because if that’s all the time we get to promote music education and they become part of our school board or our administration someday we want to make that they’re able to connect the music in a way that’s outside of music that they teach in school.

Beatrice:          Exactly. And even just become informed consumer and so as Kristin said we’re doing a lot with this micro level especially in the ensemble classroom and we use it to advocate for music. Oh music’s important, not just because it’s [unintelligible 00:23:45] great musical things but also look at this team work, look at this leadership that we’re developing in our classroom, but we’re not necessarily relating that to the big picture of what’s going on in the world. Are we looking at how the ensemble functions together, not only in our school, but how does this work in other schools? How does it work in other States or cultures or countries? And so, looking at our musical experiences and relating them to those of others, so we can really make sense of them and see where we’re fitting in.

Kristin:            And this deals with looking at the self-pedagogy. And this requires relevant subject matter and instruction and meeting the student’s needs and a popular term that’s being formed in education these days, is differentiation. And this is just basically v carefully designing curriculum that meets students where they are and connects their prior knowledge and their prior experiences to their real life, so that it has something to, kind of, stick to and that, it’s another aspect of felling and emotion that they can connect to the music or connect to the curriculum. It encourages students to think about their personal views and what the subject matter means to them.

And like we said earlier, the ensemble experience is very director centred and we don’t want to give students information, like Dr. Henderson did for us and when he gave us that sense of autonomy in his, “Fundamentals of Curriculum” class. It was actually quite scary that we were in charge of our own learning and we were, kind of, nervous and thinking well what does the professor expect. Because typically, in any class that you take, you’re going to be told exactly the projects that you’ll need to complete, what you need to do to get an A in the class and that’s what, you know we were all used to. So, it was really scary for us at first to go into that type of atmosphere and we want students to be autonomous also and we want them to be engaged and have some, sort of, active role and be kind of as repository for instruction.

Beatrice:          So, just to review for a minute, we’ve got our subject matter understanding, which is understanding music in its performance aspects, the terminology, the physical aspects, even some historical information. We also want to promote social understanding on the micro and macro levels and understand the role that we’re playing in our musical development through the self-understanding, what does it mean to the student particularly? How has it connected to the rest of their life? So, as Kristine said before, when they leave our classrooms, go out into the world, we can make sure we’ve taken something that they are taking something positive about music with them. And so, if we can do this in a way that makes sense for our own situation, our own students and school districts and also make it fit with our administrators expectations, we can cultivate democratic, holistic education. And it’s important to know, that we’re saying, that we can adapt this in a way that makes sense for your own particular situation.

There is no prescription for here is exactly how you can foster a 3S Pedagogy in your classroom, ta-da-da and the list and you check off these boxes and go. It’s just not how it works, you need to figure out what works best for your students in your situation, which actually is kind of a breath of air after having many people tell you exactly what you should be doing in your classroom. And so, by doing that, by having that autonomy yourself and promoting it in your student, we can have this democratic, holistic education. And we can do it by facilitating rather than directing, getting away from what Kristen described as that director centred classroom, where we tell the students exactly what we want them to do here and this is why and I’m going to make these musical decisions and you’re going to do this.

We might want to ask them questions. Why do you think the composer write this this way? Why did the composer choose these particular instruments to play here? What did the [timbre 00:28:20] have to do with the emotion that the composer is trying to evoke? We can ask our students these questions and leave them to come up with answers that make sense to them, we can ask them why do you think is a good piece to perform on the concert. What do you think our audience is going to get out this? Does it fit with the certain them that we’re working on for our concert and have that, kind of, conversation, because we need to be discussing rather than dictating. Now of course we’re music educators, we’re the expert in the room and so there are going to be times when we need to tell our students certain information, but we can also ask them what does this particular piece of music or this particular cultural aspect that we’re talking about mean to you? What do you hear in this piece of music? We always like to give our students the answers, sometimes even in advance.

A lot of times, with listening examples particularly, we’re going to say, “All right class, today we are going to listen Carnival of Animal, by Saint-Saëns and we are going to listen to the swan part and you will hear that the cello sounds like a swan and the piano sounds like the water. And then push play and our students already know what they’re listening for, but if we give them a chance what they’ve heard first then they might actually make a better personal connection to that piece of music. Does that mean we can’t share the answer that we think it is, of course not, of course we can share that information, but we can give our students the grace as well, because we want to relate to their outside musical experience. Perhaps, if we’re discussing a composer, who wrote a particular piece of music and talking about the social understanding, what was happening in the world when the composer wrote that piece of music. Why was, did world events inspire this composer to write this piece? Have you ever experienced anything like this in your life and then that composer becomes a person rather than just a fact and we might be able to relate better.

We want to know what our students are doing with music outside of school. Kristin mentioned popular music earlier, are we advocating to completely transform your curriculum, into nothing but popular music that your students are listening to? Of course not, but do we think that maybe validating some of their experiences, not because we particularly care for all that music as well, but because they are sharing and engaging in the music. But we can show them how that kind of music connects to other kinds then we can really make lifelong appreciators out of our students.

Kristin:            And this requires giving a voice, like Beatrice said, but remaining the expert in the room. Because democratic, holistic education gives the students the ability to share their thoughts of music and just not telling them what is wrong and how to fix it and what to think about a particular piece of music. When I was teaching, sometimes I would ask my students questions and they would become frustrated, because I would keep answering their questions with another question, because I didn’t want to just give them the answer. I wanted to lead them to the answer. I wanted to know what they were thinking and how I could adapt my teaching to fit their needs and get them to discover the answer in their own way in something that was meaningful for them. I wanted then to think for themselves. So, you are the expert in the room and it is important to set parameters.

Think about a beginning jazz musician learning how to improvise, we don’t just want to tell, give them every single note that they can play on their instrument and have them go at it. You know, we’re going to keep them [unintelligible 00:32:19] of five pitches and maybe a few rhythms at first, you know they’re going to take things every very simple. So, this, kind of, requires studying some sort of parameters in the room and how students are going to go about having this autonomy and we’re going to talk about some benefits and challenges here in a little while, as well.

Beatrice:          So, before we talk about different benefits and challenges to fostering three-s understanding in our classrooms. Let’s go back to this performance aspect again and talk about concerts. Concerts are a huge part of what we do in music education. Performances make up the bulk of what we’re trying to accomplish, especially in ensemble based classrooms, and that’s for good reason. Because musicians perform and they share their music with the world, but we can think about concerts in two ways.

In one situation, think about it like this; the teacher plans the concert, maybe performing contractual obligations and to allow their student a chance to perform for their families, so they can exhibit what they’ve been learning. And this teacher selects the repertoire, passes it out to the students, they rehearse, they diagnose certain problems, fix them, oh we didn’t get the words quite right here, oh the [unintelligible 00:33:42] looks very good here, oh the [unintelligible 00:33:43], we keep missing this particular pitch, etc. Fixing it all, concerts in what, kind of, musical decisions are going to happen during the piece, the students come to the concert, they show up, they perform, the audience is happy, students are happy, director, the teacher is happy and everybody goes home and they move on, right. That’s typically, kind of, how this goes, but we can also think about planning and executing that concert just slightly differently.

The teacher, of course as Kristin said, is still the expert in the room, so the teacher is going to select the repertoire. However, it might not be wholly out of the realm of possibility for the teacher to select six pieces that are appropriate for the concert, knowing that really they only need five, and allowing the students the chance to hear them and decide and deliberate about which pieces they think makes sense. Which ones fit together, which ones do we think the audience will like? Which ones are going to help us get better at these certain musical skills that we’re working on developing and allowing student a voice in that choice and then figuring out why, ooh why are these pieces good, then they’ll be thinking about that while they’re rehearsing.

The students can participate in self and group evaluation. Now, this is in our standard, it’s in the national standards, I know it’s in our content standards for here in Ohio. I’m sure it’s in content standards for other States as well, but we want to encourage our students to evaluate themselves and the group and other musicians. But we can take that a step further when preparing for the concert. We can also discuss why we’re having this concert in the first place, have you ever participated in a concert and you just knew you were doing it because well it’s a band or orchestra or choir, so we’re having a concert because that’s what we do and the end. Rather than really thinking about, well, why do musicians give concerts in the first place? Why is performance such an important part of our discipline?

We can have that conversation with our students. We can talk about, what is the concert going to mean to the audience and then when we perform, afterwards we can have our students reflect. How did we do, what did we do well, what do we need to fix next time? Did we meet our goals, what was the audience’s reaction and what did we learn from this experience, apart from just these five pieces? Did we learn just the notes and rhythms or did we learn something else, other things as well? And so, this sounds like, well this is about talking, you’re going to have [a new classroom with 00:36:28] a lot of conversations and when are we actually going to learn the music and the pitches and the notes. Well, okay, that is a real concern to me like Kristen said. We’re going to talk about other benefits and challenges in a moment.

But it’s important to know that any, kind of, conversation that you have in your classroom. Yes it will take time but it’s an investment. It’s like having to spend to make money. You need to spend time to gain time later on. You might not gain that time this school year, maybe it’s next school year, maybe it’s a couple of years down the road. Maybe it’s the time that you’re gaining is students staying involved in music throughout their school life and beyond. So, we’re going to talk about that even more in just a moment.

Kristen:           And it does require a community of trust, because this does seem some, sort of daunting task that we’re trying to prescribe to you and get you motivated to take back to your schools. But we just want you to take small steps. And this isn’t something that needs to change, the whole you teach and the whole way that you present the curriculum to the students. This isn’t just a small step that we can all do to foster a holistic education. And it requires a collaboration amongst students, teachers and administration in order 3S Pedagogy to be successful. And in my opinion there’s three different levels of trust that needs to occur. It needs to occur between administration and teachers, because the administration probably needs to trust that the teacher is teaching what they’ve been assigned to teach and making sure that they are teaching effectively.

The teacher also needs to be able to trust that student and that they’re going to be an active participant and have an active autonomous role in their part of the education. And then the students also needs to trust the teacher and listen, and the student needs to know that the teacher is going to lead them to an understanding, sort of like, when I was telling you about my frustrated students when I answered their question with another question to lead them to an answer. So, not telling the students exactly what we want them to do.

So, when we presented this, the higher music education professional development conference we grouped our participants by their content areas so that we had, so music teachers speaking together, choir teachers speaking together and similar folks speaking together. And talking about how you can change your teaching or modify your teaching to adapt the 3S Pedagogy in your school and classroom. We also wanted them to talk about the benefits and challenges, because we know from being practicing teachers that this isn’t something that’s going to change overnight and we’re, we asked our participants to have a deliberative conversation. Like, we have models throughout the presentation to practice what we preach. Not telling you exactly what 3S Pedagogy is, but giving you enough information that you can apply it to your teaching and your life.

And these are the challenges that some of our participants have developed and we had two white boards in the front of the classroom, so they came up and wrote these things down. And one of the challenges that they addressed was navigating the standardized management. And yes we understand that this can be very tricky because we all had the evaluation assessment that we have to do. We have all of these hoops that we have to jump through.

And there’s also a good bit of time and planning and we don’t have time, we’re music teachers. You know, how much time am I going to need to devote to, you know, fostering 3S Pedagogy in democratic, holistic education. And even that’s just such a daunting task that with something we’re not sure we want to put the time in. and also that the objectives can be somewhat messy, because we’re differentiating our instructions so much to reach the needs of the child and making sure that our instruction is meaningful. So, that can be somewhat tricky as well, especially when we’re submitting lesson plans with our objectives on them and our administration looks at them and once again it goes back to navigating the standardized management.

And then there’s also the [unintelligible 00:41:12] developmental readiness, because if you think about a four year old or a five year old or six year old in general music class, you’re not going to want to give them a whole lot of autonomy in their general music classroom. So, you have to think about what is appropriate for their developmental stages. And then there also might be some shy students that don’t feel comfortable sharing their opinions and letting the teacher know. Because there’s other classrooms that this isn’t happening in that we are – that teachers are not giving students a voice, where they go in, they sit down, they take notes, they memorize their notes, they take a test and they pass it. And they’re not being asked for their opinion and for their experiences. So it can kind of be challenging to navigate through different classrooms.

And there’s also closed-minded colleagues, and I’m really hoping that maybe when you go to school tomorrow and the next educator that you see, you’re going to talk to them about 3S Pedagogy and lead learning and democratic holistic education and we know they sound like fancy words. But, you know, we really want you to believe in this Pedagogy that can change the way that we think about the curriculum. And there’s also limited equipment to adapt to other environments. But there really are some benefits to 3S Pedagogy, which Beatrice is going to talk to you about, but what she’d said before really is true. You’ve got to put in time, just a little bit, just change small little things about your teaching for now in order for it to pay off in the future.

Beatrice:          And so, before I talk about the benefits, I’d like for you to – I’m just going to go back for one second. Consider these challenges that Kristin just talked to you about, and when we do get to the question and the answer portion here, if you – we will provide some answers for these challenges too. So ways that you can combat them, but if you have any ideas for how these certain challenges can be navigated in your school. Please think of those write them down and we might be able to, have you share those with the rest of us.

Now, briefly, the benefits here of promoting democratic holistic education through 3S Pedagogy, that’s a mouth full, is of course differentiation. You have to show differentiation in a lot of places [unintelligible 00:43:53] teacher evaluation. You have to show how you’re reaching learners the different areas. This is a great way that you can show that. You can also promote a deeper understanding of the music that you’re doing or maybe the lyrics of certain pieces. Sometimes the words in a choir becomes an afterthought, particularly in a foreign language, and so through 3S Pedagogy we can actually connect to that. Because we’re increasing the engagement of our students. We’re giving them a reason to pay attention because we’re making it valid for them. It helps us with advocacy. We’re making our curriculum more relevant and attention. We’re going to get students staying in music longer, because it’s going to be more important to them and they’re going to be able to do more in music classrooms. This sense of belonging that they can get through having these conversations with each other and their teacher. I’m sure all of you can figure out from your own experience those priceless moments that you had. That’s really important.

Also fostering critical thinking. That’s something we all also have to prove that we’re doing in our classrooms. And these kinds of things can lead to that, it promotes autonomy, of course we’ve talked about that a lot and self-esteem. Like yes, I matter, I’m a person in this ensemble and what I’m doing is really making a difference. And we’re promoting great student teacher relationships because we’re validating where the students are coming from and showing that what they’re thinking really matters. Well also teaching them things that we think they need to know.

Kristin:            These are some of the books that we, to garner our understanding and like the, Dr. Henderson led us to our understanding in our [parery 00:45:41], our journey of understanding. These are some of the books that we’ve read and disseminated and this is how we garnered our collection. So if you’re interested in any of the books, Dr. Henderson’s book is listed, I also recommend the Nel Noddings book.

Beatrice:          It’s fabulous, you should read it.

Kristin:            Yes, it’s an education [unintelligible 00:46:03] very, very good book, easy read and also, “Finish lessons”. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with what the education is in Finland, but they have such a different system and they’ve been able to turn around their educational experiences for their citizen in such a way in a very short period of time they actually went on being one of the worst academically in the world to being one of the best school system in the world.

Beatrice:          Arguably the best.

Kristin:            Arguably the best. So.

Beatrice:          Chuck it out.

Kristin:            We really like those books and if you have, any questions we would like to address them now.

Female Voice: Hello.

Annie:             Thank you Beatrice, thank you Kristin. Is somebody on the call? Hello. Okay. I do have to apologise in advance, because there had been some people who couldn’t hear the presentation properly and I know a lot of them have decided to dial in to hear the presentation. There has, IT was trying to figure it out, we couldn’t come to a solution, but at the same time [ unintelligible 00:47:08] you guys. Yeah, I know, but this Webinar is recorded and we will send the recording out to everybody today and also Michelle will be following up with you. But again, for those who are on the call feel free to ask any questions. And I do, I know a couple of people are still online only and were able to hear so I think it’s, it depends on the system. I know WebEx is a little bit tricky at times, but bear with us. So, I do have one question here, Kristin and Beatrice you know, would you be able to say like have you seen any like real change from your own students in the way that they are taking knowledge that you’ve been teaching through this method?

Beatrice:          Well, when Kristin and I were exposed to this we were both full time doctoral students here. So, we haven’t been in our particular classrooms since this has happened. However, we have both done a lot undergraduate teaching. And so in our undergraduate teaching from the first year, that we were teaching to now we have applied a lot of this, kind of, information even to our undergraduates and it has made a big difference in what they’ve gotten out of method classes, in classes about music teaching as a profession, because we haven’t just been spouting a lot of educational terminology and oh these are things you need to know, we’ve been relating it to their strengths and their experiences and we’ve definitely seen an improvement I n our students here and we’re both very excited to get back to our classes and implement a lot of these things with our own younger students as well.

Kristin:            And I think it’s important that we’re teaching our undergraduate students this sort of three -s pedagogy and letting them know what this is all about before they go out in the field. So, that we’re reaching more people and we’re able to tell them about this new great way of thinking about curriculum that isn’t a standardised management hoop to jump through that we’re all used to.

Beatrice:          Now, I can say that many of our other colleagues that have been in this class are still currently practicing teachers. And they have lots of great things to say about their classroom and in fact the book, “Reconceptualising Curriculum Development”, has many examples from practicing teacher about things they did and improvement they saw in their students, in that book. Not, unfortunately not specific to music, but there are still a lot of great ideas from actual practicing teachers in there.

Kristin:            That’s a great question though.

Annie:             Than you, thank you. And let me just see. Now, everyone who is one, everyone on the call, I know you guys are muted by default, if you want to unmute yourself to raise any question you can do that by pressing pound six onto your phone and then your line will be unmuted and you can bring up any questions that you may have. While you guys do that, Kristin and Beatrice, while everyone kind of think of some questions for us regarding your presentation. Maybe you can dive into a little bit even your own experience from the program when you were in there.

Kristin:            Oh, from the master’s program?

Annie:             That’s right.

Beatrice:          Oh, excellent. Yes. Well the master’s program was fabulous, as something to do while still teaching. It was completely selectable when you worked, all on your own time, which was great because sometimes after a long day of teaching, you’re not ready to, like, dive right into a class that starts a four o’clock and so you could work out your leisure, which it was great from a time management stand point but the material. The things that we’ve learned in the courses for the online masters were very applicable to what we were doing in the classroom. So it was great to be able to be a practicing teacher and in that program, because there were a lot of direct applications that we could then right back to school with us.

Kristin:            It was, kind of, like attending like a conference or professional development conference where you get to learn a whole bunch of new tricks and then you’d get excited and you go to school and you try out these new tricks on your students. So, that’s kind of, like, it was a great experience and that’s why I continued on to the doctoral level. And I was also very nervous as a fulltime teacher that was a band director, football games, touchdown games, solo and ensemble and all, you know, all the many tasks that a band director wears. I was really nervous that I wasn’t going to have the time. And taking one class at a time, really made sense. Because it was only focusing on one class, and really there was only one or two assignments that would be due each week and most of the time it’d be a discussion board, where you have quotes. And then, you know, you have your other projects that would be due at the end of the semester or actually it’s the end of the seven weeks.

Beatrice:          Seven weeks, whatever it is now, yeah.

Kristin:            And so, it really wasn’t as difficult as what I have thought it was going to be. So, I was able to teach fulltime, go through football season, marching band, band camp, while working on my master’s degree and no interruption. I just had to plan ahead. If I knew I had an assignment due on Friday, I would have to do it on Thursday because there was no way I was going to be at home on Friday to do a discussion board quote or finish a project.

Beatrice:          It was a good; it was a good blend of being manageable while still being worthwhile. Because honestly if you’re a practicing teacher and you’re going to go back for your master’s degree and spend the money and the time. You want to get something out of it. Like you want it, you want it to be manageable, but you don’t want it to be worthless. And so this program was great for that. It worked well for the time but also has good applications. And some of the classes that weren’t exactly, that were more music based rather than education based. It was nice to get a good refresher on your musicianship, some things from undergrad that you’re like; “Oh, yeah I should probably remember that now”, so.

Kristin:            It was Italian [unintelligible 00:53:35].

Beatrice:          Right.

Annie:             Thank you. And I’m just looking through the comments here. There was one. Do you have any suggestions or best practices that you’ve seen, in terms of how, because you’ve mention that collaboration is, it’s important in this, kind of, way of developing a curriculum and, you know, really sharing ideas amongst, like, colleagues and stuff like that. Is there a best practice that you think works to help, kind of, gain that environment, I guess you could say.

Beatrice:          The big think about engaging in deliberate conversation with your colleagues is the invitation to do so. It’s – you don’t want to approach it as; “Okay, we want to talk about curriculums now. Let’s all meet and we’re going to discuss this “. You want to respectfully invite people to participate in a conversation with you. And if someone is not open to it, then they’re not open to it. You can try to work on them later or maybe they’ll see you working with other people and get interested. But it’s not something you want to force people to do. Because then you’re not going to get much out of it. You want to engage them in an invitation. And you want to show less [unintelligible 00:54:48]. I want to learn from you, that really helps people. Please talk to me about what you’re doing. What’s really working for you? I’d like to learn from that. Now let me tell you about what I’m doing.

When you’re both seeing the similar problem. How can we work to fix it, and so it’s the invitation to participate that’s congenial, but really the key to the whole thing. Like Kristin said about in your own classroom, building a community of trust. It’s the same thing at the colleague level. And baby steps. It’s also very important to remember baby steps with conversations with your colleagues and with your own students. No one is going to school tomorrow and completely overhaul their whole curriculum and how they do everything, that’s completely unrealistic. Take small steps relish the small victories that you have. Anyone conversation, any one moment that you have is an important moment in a child or a colleagues that they wouldn’t have had before and so take small steps to make big changes.

Kristin:            And I think that the most, I don’t want to say easiest or simplest way that you can change immediately your instructions is that, look at how you’re teaching. Are you telling students what they should know or are you leading them to the information? Because we don’t want to give them a false sense what music is to them, because we don’t know what music is to them and we don’t want to tell them and, you know. And like Beatrice said, it’s okay to share your experiences and what you think music is, but we don’t want to tell them. So, next time you’re on the podium in front of an ensemble think about, you know, are you telling them how to play the dynamics or are you allowing them to be musical and expressive

And this requires giving a voice, like Beatrice said, but remaining the expert in the room. Because democratic, holistic education gives the students the ability to share their thoughts of music and just not telling them what is wrong and how to fix it and what to think about a particular piece of music. When I was teaching, sometimes I would ask my students questions and they would become frustrated, because I would keep answering their questions with another question, because I didn’t want to just give them the answer. I wanted to lead them to the answer. I wanted to know what they were thinking and how I could adapt my teaching to fit their needs and get them to discover the answer in their own way in something that was meaningful for them. I wanted then to think for themselves. So, you are the expert in the room and it is important to set parameters.

Think about a beginning jazz musician learning how to improvise, we don’t just want to tell, give them every single note that they can play on their instrument and have them go at it. You know, we’re going to keep them [unintelligible 00:32:19] of five pitches and maybe a few rhythms at first, you know they’re going to take things every very simple. So, this, kind of, requires studying some sort of parameters in the room and how students are going to go about having this autonomy and we’re going to talk about some benefits and challenges here in a little while, as well.
Beatrice: So, before we talk about different benefits and challenges to fostering three-s understanding in our classrooms. Let’s go back to this performance aspect again and talk about concerts. Concerts are a huge part of what we do in music education. Performances make up the bulk of what we’re trying to accomplish, especially in ensemble based classrooms, and that’s for good reason. Because musicians perform and they share their music with the world, but we can think about concerts in two ways.
In one situation, think about it like this; the teacher plans the concert, maybe performing contractual obligations and to allow their student a chance to perform for their families, so they can exhibit what they’ve been learning. And this teacher selects the repertoire, passes it out to the students, they rehearse, they diagnose certain problems, fix them, oh we didn’t get the words quite right here, oh the [unintelligible 00:33:42] looks very good here, oh the [unintelligible 00:33:43], we keep missing this particular pitch, etc. Fixing it all, concerts in what, kind of, musical decisions are going to happen during the piece, the students come to the concert, they show up, they perform, the audience is happy, students are happy, director, the teacher is happy and everybody goes home and they move on, right. That’s typically, kind of, how this goes, but we can also think about planning and executing that concert just slightly differently.
The teacher, of course as Kristin said, is still the expert in the room, so the teacher is going to select the repertoire. However, it might not be wholly out of the realm of possibility for the teacher to select six pieces that are appropriate for the concert, knowing that really they only need five, and allowing the students the chance to hear them and decide and deliberate about which pieces they think makes sense. Which ones fit together, which ones do we think the audience will like? Which ones are going to help us get better at these certain musical skills that we’re working on developing and allowing student a voice in that choice and then figuring out why, ooh why are these pieces good, then they’ll be thinking about that while they’re rehearsing.
The students can participate in self and group evaluation. Now, this is in our standard, it’s in the national standards, I know it’s in our content standards for here in Ohio. I’m sure it’s in content standards for other States as well, but we want to encourage our students to evaluate themselves and the group and other musicians. But we can take that a step further when preparing for the concert. We can also discuss why we’re having this concert in the first place, have you ever participated in a concert and you just knew you were doing it because well it’s a band or orchestra or choir, so we’re having a concert because that’s what we do and the end. Rather than really thinking about, well, why do musicians give concerts in the first place? Why is performance such an important part of our discipline?
We can have that conversation with our students. We can talk about, what is the concert going to mean to the audience and then when we perform, afterwards we can have our students reflect. How did we do, what did we do well, what do we need to fix next time? Did we meet our goals, what was the audience’s reaction and what did we learn from this experience, apart from just these five pieces? Did we learn just the notes and rhythms or did we learn something else, other things as well? And so, this sounds like, well this is about talking, you’re going to have [a new classroom with 00:36:28] a lot of conversations and when are we actually going to learn the music and the pitches and the notes. Well, okay, that is a real concern to me like Kristen said. We’re going to talk about other benefits and challenges in a moment.
But it’s important to know that any, kind of, conversation that you have in your classroom. Yes it will take time but it’s an investment. It’s like having to spend to make money. You need to spend time to gain time later on. You might not gain that time this school year, maybe it’s next school year, maybe it’s a couple of years down the road. Maybe it’s the time that you’re gaining is students staying involved in music throughout their school life and beyond. So, we’re going to talk about that even more in just a moment.
Kristen: And it does require a community of trust, because this does seem some, sort of daunting task that we’re trying to prescribe to you and get you motivated to take back to your schools. But we just want you to take small steps. And this isn’t something that needs to change, the whole you teach and the whole way that you present the curriculum to the students. This isn’t just a small step that we can all do to foster a holistic education. And it requires a collaboration amongst students, teachers and administration in order 3S Pedagogy to be successful. And in my opinion there’s three different levels of trust that needs to occur. It needs to occur between administration and teachers, because the administration probably needs to trust that the teacher is teaching what they’ve been assigned to teach and making sure that they are teaching effectively.
The teacher also needs to be able to trust that student and that they’re going to be an active participant and have an active autonomous role in their part of the education. And then the students also needs to trust the teacher and listen, and the student needs to know that the teacher is going to lead them to an understanding, sort of like, when I was telling you about my frustrated students when I answered their question with another question to lead them to an answer. So, not telling the students exactly what we want them to do.
So, when we presented this, the higher music education professional development conference we grouped our participants by their content areas so that we had, so music teachers speaking together, choir teachers speaking together and similar folks speaking together. And talking about how you can change your teaching or modify your teaching to adapt the 3S Pedagogy in your school and classroom. We also wanted them to talk about the benefits and challenges, because we know from being practicing teachers that this isn’t something that’s going to change overnight and we’re, we asked our participants to have a deliberative conversation. Like, we have models throughout the presentation to practice what we preach. Not telling you exactly what 3S Pedagogy is, but giving you enough information that you can apply it to your teaching and your life.
And these are the challenges that some of our participants have developed and we had two white boards in the front of the classroom, so they came up and wrote these things down. And one of the challenges that they addressed was navigating the standardized management. And yes we understand that this can be very tricky because we all had the evaluation assessment that we have to do. We have all of these hoops that we have to jump through.
And there’s also a good bit of time and planning and we don’t have time, we’re music teachers. You know, how much time am I going to need to devote to, you know, fostering 3S Pedagogy in democratic, holistic education. And even that’s just such a daunting task that with something we’re not sure we want to put the time in. and also that the objectives can be somewhat messy, because we’re differentiating our instructions so much to reach the needs of the child and making sure that our instruction is meaningful. So, that can be somewhat tricky as well, especially when we’re submitting lesson plans with our objectives on them and our administration looks at them and once again it goes back to navigating the standardized management.
And then there’s also the [unintelligible 00:41:12] developmental readiness, because if you think about a four year old or a five year old or six year old in general music class, you’re not going to want to give them a whole lot of autonomy in their general music classroom. So, you have to think about what is appropriate for their developmental stages. And then there also might be some shy students that don’t feel comfortable sharing their opinions and letting the teacher know. Because there’s other classrooms that this isn’t happening in that we are – that teachers are not giving students a voice, where they go in, they sit down, they take notes, they memorize their notes, they take a test and they pass it. And they’re not being asked for their opinion and for their experiences. So it can kind of be challenging to navigate through different classrooms.
And there’s also closed-minded colleagues, and I’m really hoping that maybe when you go to school tomorrow and the next educator that you see, you’re going to talk to them about 3S Pedagogy and lead learning and democratic holistic education and we know they sound like fancy words. But, you know, we really want you to believe in this Pedagogy that can change the way that we think about the curriculum. And there’s also limited equipment to adapt to other environments. But there really are some benefits to 3S Pedagogy, which Beatrice is going to talk to you about, but what she’d said before really is true. You’ve got to put in time, just a little bit, just change small little things about your teaching for now in order for it to pay off in the future.
Beatrice: And so, before I talk about the benefits, I’d like for you to – I’m just going to go back for one second. Consider these challenges that Kristin just talked to you about, and when we do get to the question and the answer portion here, if you – we will provide some answers for these challenges too. So ways that you can combat them, but if you have any ideas for how these certain challenges can be navigated in your school. Please think of those write them down and we might be able to, have you share those with the rest of us.
Now, briefly, the benefits here of promoting democratic holistic education through 3S Pedagogy, that’s a mouth full, is of course differentiation. You have to show differentiation in a lot of places [unintelligible 00:43:53] teacher evaluation. You have to show how you’re reaching learners the different areas. This is a great way that you can show that. You can also promote a deeper understanding of the music that you’re doing or maybe the lyrics of certain pieces. Sometimes the words in a choir becomes an afterthought, particularly in a foreign language, and so through 3S Pedagogy we can actually connect to that. Because we’re increasing the engagement of our students. We’re giving them a reason to pay attention because we’re making it valid for them. It helps us with advocacy. We’re making our curriculum more relevant and attention. We’re going to get students staying in music longer, because it’s going to be more important to them and they’re going to be able to do more in music classrooms. This sense of belonging that they can get through having these conversations with each other and their teacher. I’m sure all of you can figure out from your own experience those priceless moments that you had. That’s really important.
Also fostering critical thinking. That’s something we all also have to prove that we’re doing in our classrooms. And these kinds of things can lead to that, it promotes autonomy, of course we’ve talked about that a lot and self-esteem. Like yes, I matter, I’m a person in this ensemble and what I’m doing is really making a difference. And we’re promoting great student teacher relationships because we’re validating where the students are coming from and showing that what they’re thinking really matters. Well also teaching them things that we think they need to know.
Kristin: These are some of the books that we, to garner our understanding and like the, Dr. Henderson led us to our understanding in our [parery 00:45:41], our journey of understanding. These are some of the books that we’ve read and disseminated and this is how we garnered our collection. So if you’re interested in any of the books, Dr. Henderson’s book is listed, I also recommend the Nel Noddings book.
Beatrice: It’s fabulous, you should read it.
Kristin: Yes, it’s an education [unintelligible 00:46:03] very, very good book, easy read and also, “Finish lessons”. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with what the education is in Finland, but they have such a different system and they’ve been able to turn around their educational experiences for their citizen in such a way in a very short period of time they actually went on being one of the worst academically in the world to being one of the best school system in the world.
Beatrice: Arguably the best.
Kristin: Arguably the best. So.
Beatrice: Chuck it out.
Kristin: We really like those books and if you have, any questions we would like to address them now.

Annie: Thank you Beatrice, thank you Kristin. Is somebody on the call? Hello. Okay. I do have to apologise in advance, because there had been some people who couldn’t hear the presentation properly and I know a lot of them have decided to dial in to hear the presentation. There has, IT was trying to figure it out, we couldn’t come to a solution, but at the same time [ unintelligible 00:47:08] you guys. Yeah, I know, but this Webinar is recorded and we will send the recording out to everybody today and also Michelle will be following up with you. But again, for those who are on the call feel free to ask any questions. And I do, I know a couple of people are still online only and were able to hear so I think it’s, it depends on the system. I know WebEx is a little bit tricky at times, but bear with us. So, I do have one question here, Kristin and Beatrice you know, would you be able to say like have you seen any like real change from your own students in the way that they are taking knowledge that you’ve been teaching through this method?
Beatrice: Well, when Kristin and I were exposed to this we were both full time doctoral students here. So, we haven’t been in our particular classrooms since this has happened. However, we have both done a lot undergraduate teaching. And so in our undergraduate teaching from the first year, that we were teaching to now we have applied a lot of this, kind of, information even to our undergraduates and it has made a big difference in what they’ve gotten out of method classes, in classes about music teaching as a profession, because we haven’t just been spouting a lot of educational terminology and oh these are things you need to know, we’ve been relating it to their strengths and their experiences and we’ve definitely seen an improvement I n our students here and we’re both very excited to get back to our classes and implement a lot of these things with our own younger students as well.
Kristin: And I think it’s important that we’re teaching our undergraduate students this sort of three -s pedagogy and letting them know what this is all about before they go out in the field. So, that we’re reaching more people and we’re able to tell them about this new great way of thinking about curriculum that isn’t a standardised management hoop to jump through that we’re all used to.
Beatrice: Now, I can say that many of our other colleagues that have been in this class are still currently practicing teachers. And they have lots of great things to say about their classroom and in fact the book, “Reconceptualising Curriculum Development”, has many examples from practicing teacher about things they did and improvement they saw in their students, in that book. Not, unfortunately not specific to music, but there are still a lot of great ideas from actual practicing teachers in there.
Kristin: That’s a great question though.
Annie: Than you, thank you. And let me just see. Now, everyone who is one, everyone on the call, I know you guys are muted by default, if you want to unmute yourself to raise any question you can do that by pressing pound six onto your phone and then your line will be unmuted and you can bring up any questions that you may have. While you guys do that, Kristin and Beatrice, while everyone kind of think of some questions for us regarding your presentation. Maybe you can dive into a little bit even your own experience from the program when you were in there.
Kristin: Oh, from the master’s program?
Annie: That’s right.
Beatrice: Oh, excellent. Yes. Well the master’s program was fabulous, as something to do while still teaching. It was completely selectable when you worked, all on your own time, which was great because sometimes after a long day of teaching, you’re not ready to, like, dive right into a class that starts a four o’clock and so you could work out your leisure, which it was great from a time management stand point but the material. The things that we’ve learned in the courses for the online masters were very applicable to what we were doing in the classroom. So it was great to be able to be a practicing teacher and in that program, because there were a lot of direct applications that we could then right back to school with us.
Kristin: It was, kind of, like attending like a conference or professional development conference where you get to learn a whole bunch of new tricks and then you’d get excited and you go to school and you try out these new tricks on your students. So, that’s kind of, like, it was a great experience and that’s why I continued on to the doctoral level. And I was also very nervous as a fulltime teacher that was a band director, football games, touchdown games, solo and ensemble and all, you know, all the many tasks that a band director wears. I was really nervous that I wasn’t going to have the time. And taking one class at a time, really made sense. Because it was only focusing on one class, and really there was only one or two assignments that would be due each week and most of the time it’d be a discussion board, where you have quotes. And then, you know, you have your other projects that would be due at the end of the semester or actually it’s the end of the seven weeks.
Beatrice: Seven weeks, whatever it is now, yeah.
Kristin: And so, it really wasn’t as difficult as what I have thought it was going to be. So, I was able to teach fulltime, go through football season, marching band, band camp, while working on my master’s degree and no interruption. I just had to plan ahead. If I knew I had an assignment due on Friday, I would have to do it on Thursday because there was no way I was going to be at home on Friday to do a discussion board quote or finish a project.

Beatrice: It was a good; it was a good blend of being manageable while still being worthwhile. Because honestly if you’re a practicing teacher and you’re going to go back for your master’s degree and spend the money and the time. You want to get something out of it. Like you want it, you want it to be manageable, but you don’t want it to be worthless. And so this program was great for that. It worked well for the time but also has good applications. And some of the classes that weren’t exactly, that were more music based rather than education based. It was nice to get a good refresher on your musicianship, some things from undergrad that you’re like; “Oh, yeah I should probably remember that now”, so.
Kristin: It was Italian [unintelligible 00:53:35].
Beatrice: Right.
Annie: Thank you. And I’m just looking through the comments here. There was one. Do you have any suggestions or best practices that you’ve seen, in terms of how, because you’ve mention that collaboration is, it’s important in this, kind of, way of developing a curriculum and, you know, really sharing ideas amongst, like, colleagues and stuff like that. Is there a best practice that you think works to help, kind of, gain that environment, I guess you could say.
Beatrice: The big think about engaging in deliberate conversation with your colleagues is the invitation to do so. It’s – you don’t want to approach it as; “Okay, we want to talk about curriculums now. Let’s all meet and we’re going to discuss this “. You want to respectfully invite people to participate in a conversation with you. And if someone is not open to it, then they’re not open to it. You can try to work on them later or maybe they’ll see you working with other people and get interested. But it’s not something you want to force people to do. Because then you’re not going to get much out of it. You want to engage them in an invitation. And you want to show less [unintelligible 00:54:48]. I want to learn from you, that really helps people. Please talk to me about what you’re doing. What’s really working for you? I’d like to learn from that. Now let me tell you about what I’m doing.
When you’re both seeing the similar problem. How can we work to fix it, and so it’s the invitation to participate that’s congenial, but really the key to the whole thing. Like Kristin said about in your own classroom, building a community of trust. It’s the same thing at the colleague level. And baby steps. It’s also very important to remember baby steps with conversations with your colleagues and with your own students. No one is going to school tomorrow and completely overhaul their whole curriculum and how they do everything, that’s completely unrealistic. Take small steps relish the small victories that you have. Anyone conversation, any one moment that you have is an important moment in a child or a colleagues that they wouldn’t have had before and so take small steps to make big changes.

Kristin: And I think that the most, I don’t want to say easiest or simplest way that you can change immediately your instructions is that, look at how you’re teaching. Are you telling students what they should know or are you leading them to the information? Because we don’t want to give them a false sense what music is to them, because we don’t know what music is to them and we don’t want to tell them and, you know. And like Beatrice said, it’s okay to share your experiences and what you think music is, but we don’t want to tell them. So, next time you’re on the podium in front of an ensemble think about, you know, are you telling them how to play the dynamics or are you allowing them to be musical and expressive.

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